Turtle Talk

Welcome to “Turtle Talk”, where timeless trend-following meets market outliers. Join our hosts Adam and Rich including the renowned original Turtle Trader Jerry Parker as we explore core principles, current debates, and expert insights to help traders navigate financial markets.

Tune in for in-depth discussions and practical advice on trend following and Outlier Hunting.

Want to send us in a question? Just click on the button below, go to the comments section and record your voicemail or type your question and send it in. We will do our best to get it featured on our podcast.

Our podcasts contain video and graphics. Listen and watch on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or YouTube by clicking on the icons below.

Episode 015 "Inside the Loop — Uncertainty in War and the Markets (Part Two)"

Join Rich Brennan, Jerry Parker and Adam Havryliv for Episode 15 of Turtle Talk, the conclusion of our two-part special, with Mark “Moose” McGrath of the No Way Out podcast heading up the strategists’ side on his own. A smaller room this month, with Mike Melissinos and Ben Ford unable to join us, so Jerry carries the trend following side where Mike would have come in. If Part One was about the condition we all work under, that you cannot see the future and your plan will not survive contact, Part Two is about the craft, what you actually do with it. We walk the final four ideas: how you win when your chance finally comes, when to let go of a winner, how you survive a blow, and the kind of mind that holds it all together.

Episode 014 "Inside the Loop — Uncertainty in War and the Markets (Part One)"

Join Rich Brennan, Jerry Parker, Adam Havryliv and Mike Melissinos for Episode 14 of Turtle Talk, a special two-part episode with a difference. This month the trend followers share the room with two Marines, Mark “Moose” McGrath of the No Way Out podcast and Ben Ford, a Royal Marines commando turned software builder. After the turtles were invited onto No Way Out and found they were almost speaking the same language as the war camp, we returned the favour and brought the Marines onto Turtle Talk to keep the conversation going. Two worlds, one room, walking the old military strategists side by side with classic trend following, and asking one question at every turn: do the same answers hold on both sides of the door?

Episode 013 " The Punk Rocker of Trend Following: Mike Melissinos"

Join Rich Brennan, Jerry Parker, and Adam Havryliv for Episode 13 of Turtle Talk, with a very special guest. This month the three turtles are joined by Mike Melissinos, founder of Melissinos Trading and one of the genuinely uncompromising classic trend followers you can count on one hand. Same system, same rules since 2011, no drift, no compromise, and no watering it down for institutional palatability.

Episode 012 "Just the Turtles: February Review, Energy Breakouts & Myth Busting"

Join Rich Brennan, Jerry Parker, and Adam Havryliv for Episode 12 of Turtle Talk — no guests this month, just the three turtles going deep.

February was another outstanding month for classic trend followers, but March has thrown a few spanners in the works. The guys unpack what’s really driving performance, where the next big opportunities might be hiding, and take aim at some of the most persistent myths in the trend following space.

Episode 011 "FX Arbitrage, Regime Change, and the Return of Classic Trend"

In Episode 011 of Turtle Talk, Rich Brennan, Jerry Parker, and Adam Havryliv are joined by Sanjeev Lakhanpal of Horizon3 Investment Management. The discussion covers January’s rare breadth across all seven trend benchmarks, a spirited vol-weighting vs loose pants debate, and Sanj’s reveal of Horizon3’s market-neutral FX swap arbitrage program averaging over 2% monthly with no losing trades — before exploring why today’s fragmented macro landscape marks a return to the classic CTA era.

Episode 010 “Stocks, Outliers, and the Geometry of Trend”

In Episode 010 of Turtle Talk, Rich Brennan and Jerry Parker are joined by Cole Wilcox of Longboard Asset Management to explore equity trend following, outliers, and why robust process matters in volatile regimes. The discussion covers the December 2025 Battle of the Trend Following Indexes, recent sharp reversals across metals and livestock, and why short-term noise is irrelevant to long-horizon systems, before Cole explains how stock-level trend following captures the small minority of companies that drive most equity market returns.

Episode 009 “Outliers, Market Crises and the Architecture of Trend Following”

In Episode 009 of Turtle Talk, Rich, Adam, and Jerry return for a year end roundtable. From October’s steady rebound in the trend indexes to the sharp reversals across metals, energy, and livestock, the trio examine how real systems behave when markets shift from calm conditions to rough terrain. The conversation moves into deeper structural themes as Rich leads two major deep dives on outlier hunting and crisis history, with Jerry and Adam expanding on diversification, robustness, and the discipline that keeps trend followers in the game.

Episode 008“Pyramids, Outlier Hunting &The Aussie Turtles Trend Following Guide”

In Episode 008 of Turtle Talk, Rich, Adam, and Jerry are back behind the mics. From September’s powerful rebound in the trend indexes to the hidden fragility beneath market calm, the trio explore how compression, diversification, and design discipline define real robustness. The conversation builds toward the release of The Aussie Turtles Trend Following Guide, as Jerry turns interviewer to uncover how philosophy, process, and practice come together in the pursuit of outliers.

Episode 007: “Fractals, Expectancy, and Survival”

In Episode 007 of Turtle Talk, Rich, Adam, and Jerry return to the mics for a focused roundtable — no guests this time, just the three of them tackling the big themes shaping systematic trend following. From fractals and the inevitability of outliers, to expectancy versus path dependence, to why Jerry swears by the Cut Back Rule (and even loose pants), the conversation cuts straight to the core of survival and edge. They also weigh in on August’s trend index battles, review standout markets from copper to cattle, and debate whether high-volatility trend following might be the most valuable alternative investment today.

Episode 006: “The NYC Getaway: Outliers, Diversification, and the Quest for Maximum CAGR”

In Episode 006 of Turtle Talk, Rich and Adam join Jerry Parker in his New York getaway for a special face-to-face session, an unscripted deep dive into outlier hunting, maximum diversification, and the pursuit of true CAGR.

Together they unpack the philosophy of classic trend following, challenge the smoothness obsession of modern approaches, and reflect on why wide nets and robust rules are the essence of enduring success.

Episode 005: “Outliers, Recovery, and the Classic Trend Advantage”

In Episode 005 of Turtle Talk, Rich, Adam, and Jerry are joined by Brazilian economist Bruno Campos — with a brief cameo from Argentine trend advocate Andrés Petrocelli — for a dynamic discussion on the return of trend strength, dispersion among managers, and why outlier-focused systems may be best positioned for a faster rebound.

They unpack index performance, dissect sector breakouts, and challenge the limits of volatility-managed approaches — all while spotlighting Bruno’s journey from macro models to momentum conviction.

Episode 004: "From Lab Coat to Trend Charts: Dr. Kevin Maki"

In Episode 004 of Turtle Talk, Rich, Adam and Jerry are joined by evidence-based investor Dr. Kevin Maki for a sharp, data-driven conversation on trend following from the investor’s seat. They dive into drawdowns, model robustness, and the overlooked edge of momentum quality — all through the lens of disciplined, statistical thinking.

It’s smart, unscripted, and packed with real-world trend insight.

Episode 003: "High Octane Classic Trend with Moritz Seibert"

In Episode 003 of Turtle Talk, Rich, Adam, and Jerry are joined by trend tactician Moritz Seibert for a wide-ranging, no-filter discussion on navigating drawdowns, unleashing outliers, and staying true to the classic trend code.

They dissect April’s rough patch, debate dynamic sizing vs raw edge, spotlight markets like cocoa, gold, and JGBs, and explore why “loose pants” and unwavering process beat clever tweaks every time. Moritz also lifts the hood on his bold new high-volatility fund — and what it means for the future of trend.

It’s deep, unscripted, and pure trend DNA.

Episode 002: "Riding the Storm with Salem Abraham"

In this episode of Turtle Talk, Rich Brennan, Adam Havryliv, and Jerry Parker welcome special guest Salem Abraham for a deep and often hilarious dive into the reality of trading trends through chaos. They break down the March Battle of the Trend Following Indexes, unpack this year’s wild market action, and bust myths around crisis alpha and system design. From gold surges to copper whipsaws, to the math behind robust portfolios — this episode is a trend-following masterclass. If you’re navigating volatility and looking for timeless wisdom, don’t miss this one.

Episode 001: "The Classic Trend Addicts are Back"

In the first episode of Turtle Talk, Rich Brennan, Adam Havryliv, and trend-following legend Jerry Parker dive into the raw, unfiltered world of Classic Trend Following. They break down the Battle of the Trend Following Indexes, highlight January’s biggest market movers, and spotlight Rising Stars & Trend Titans in systematic trading. Plus, Jerry takes on MythBusters, arguing why excessive risk management might be killing trend-following returns. If you’re serious about capturing outliers, cutting losses, and letting winners run, this is an episode you won’t want to miss!